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Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

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Oblivion

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-04-22 20:20

I totally understand. If you're writing a long post, I'd generally suggest copying it before hitting submit, because this forum has a nasty habit of not posting right (or at all) if you take too long to type up your response. 


Even after I spend $10 to get to VIP3, the pointy sticks wielded by those with one or more deities (True Shadow, Hera, Pandora, etc), or that one person on a different server who has an entire team of them, will be incredibly numerous, so the smash path would still probably be an iffy idea for me. So, at least in the short run, I'm leaning toward the Power Puzzle.


On to the questions!:


-I've mostly been playing the ranger (with some occasional switches to Lethal Asphyxia assassin for dealing with some PvP matchups), bcause the triple shot in most PvE and MBA in world bosses has been giving me the most success.  


-Because he's not going anywhere any time soon and lasts the longest, I've been building with a primus main.


-If I know what I'm building toward and I'm not completely gimped in the mean time, winning in the short run can take a back seat. 


-I suppose either subversion or divide and conquer. Attrition doesn't seems like a reliable strategy for me at present, and I'm not even sure what a classic fantasy build style would be.



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HakilErica

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-04-23 5:01

Standard fantasy being that you try to take one of each class, and hedge toward Knight/Warrior front-line, warlocks behind, and rangers in the rear.

Okay, so you are probably looking at a team of Milana, Hathor, Della, Frigga, Lich Regina, Lilith, and Accolade (only because everyone uses him... if feeling adventurous, skip and go with Shyvanna instead for your tanking/defense unit, with Lea continuing to fill-in the role until she's ready.)  The primary goal being to deliver debuffs on the enemy, and their specials target something other than the front-line unit (or at least aren't limited to impacting just that unit.)

Dieties/premies that fit well would be Hera (via the Venus route,) Pandora, Shera, Night Angel (so you will eventually want Sariel,) Asteria, Fairy Queen, and Shadow.

Stars will be a fairly basic build, as will gems before the glove/boot open (you have more interest in the non-standard stats of Stun/Enchant Accuracy.)  Pets don't really avail themselves much to classes yet, so probably go with one using shield crash on principle (and your units aren't aspecting to pure power damage.)

Halidoms that fit your goal are scattered about, but the interplay of placing them on the most advantageous unit and arranging them is probably the part that trips up most folks from a pure strategy standpoint (almost as much as knowing when it's best to NOT have a full rage meter.)

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Oblivion

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-04-23 19:56

That's an incredibly insightful shopping list, with the first item being just 150k reputation away. I assume Hathor will take Zyra's spot for now? Additionally, I notice seven names there (8 when counting the main character) but I only know of being able to field 6 folks at once, with one being a sub. What am I missing?


For stars, I'm shooting at Rage, HP, Melee/Spell Attack (whichever one's needed for that person), Special Attack, Crit, Deathstrike, Block or Dodge, and Wreck or Accuracy (the lists I looked at suggested Dodge/Accuracy over Block/Wreck, for reasons I'm still a bit vague on. I guess because block still takes the hit, just at a reduced amount?)


For gems, I'm still pretty vague on what I'm after, except that dodge is again pretty high on the priorities list. The concept of using them to shore up weaknesses makes sense, but what those weaknesses are for individual group members is where I get a little uncertain.


When it comes to the dragon souls, I'm pretty much absolutely baffled. Granted, it seems as though the real progress in this (Higher stars, better use) comes later as I'm able to beat the higher rank enemies.


So given what I've got available, that pretty much means going with the sheep. Alrighty. I can do that.


What goes where is definitely a strategic puzzle. I'm currently sitting at Purify on Zyra, Heal on Lea (she's the only one who has had an ability to do multiple hits thus far), Fortitude on Lisa (not terribly sure what to put on her, but most of the others depend on melee attacks and she doesn't use them often), and Smash on Aileen (Again, not sure what to use here. Maybe Witchery or Inspire (though Inspire would only boost Lea and Zyra right now), but Inspire's only rank 1 at the moment.) Again, this is definitely a feature that appears it'll take quite a bit to flesh out. 


I actually hadn't particularly considered there'd be a time I didn't want a full rage bar at the start. Everything I'd read up to this point had suggested "Build rage stars up to max ASAP and hit 'em hard!"

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HakilErica

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-04-24 4:57


I don't know that I would recommend that... Hathor is a healer, but fits your build because once you finish cooking her in Temple of Shadows, her special is a rage-cancel.  Zyra's stunning-attack-all is still quite useful to you, and from my experience, I regret dropping her as early as I did (although that was somewhere probably in the 140s.)
You are missing that my list was long-term.  You receive the first reinforcement at 100, the second at 140, and the third unlocks at 180.
Block has more quirks to it, while dodge is simpler, and like you note are more likely to take a hit.  However, you can still be impacted by special effects (poison, etc.) on a successful dodge... whether or not this is intentional, or bad coding, is anyone's guess.  In block's defense (pun totally intended,) you cannot counter on a dodge, so they both have their uses.  Whichever most players are building (usually dodge,) going the other route will be more effective because fewer will be taking the counter-stat.
Gems can either emphasize strengths, shore-up weaknesses, or go for max benefit.  Like I said earlier, aside from taking some additional accuracies late-game, any option is fine.
Correct, probably not worth the obscene amount of silver to advance the souls you can receive at this time (unless you get some decent rage saving drops :)
The giraffe from Mining Scramble also has crash.
Lea is a funny duck with Halidoms.  You have to remember her special is only a chance to combo, so pick something that would be nice to trigger every round, but not something you would count on (like you can do with Frigga.)  The other point you start to touch-on is that buffs (heal, inspire, bless, etc.) only proc once a round, while debuffs (witchery, smash, drain, etc.) can proc on each regular attack.  In this regard, Lea's straight-ahead approach can be less helpful than Frigga's random targeting, but can still be benefitical in that there are more chances to get the effect to trigger on a particular target if you pull the full combo.
The point with NOT wanting full rage comes down to Halidom use, since they only proc on regular attacks.  Say you put Taunt -4 on Lea, and she is opposite an enemy Shadow.  Is it more advantageous for you to have her special pop, and maybe get up-to three attacks with defense down, or would you rather take the guaranteed regular attack with a high chance of sealing HIS special for a round?  Besides, most players start with Threat, so unless it is still a weak skill, you generally won't have enough rage in the first round anyway.

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Oblivion

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-05-01 0:24

I did it! I've got Hathor, and she's been trued and is now level 85 and sitting in the main party where Lisa was, while Lisa is my current sub choice. Up to now, I've only been going up to 100 mainstat in cultivation with tier 1/2 potions, stars, and gem odds and ends. Is it safe/not as much of a money waste to upgrade Hathor since she'll be with me longer?

Ahhh.... That makes sense, and also explains why I have two sealed slots on either side of where my first substitute goes in the Chinese version of this. And why I'm seeing 7/6 and 8/6 in the Mining Scramble minigame.


I assume that rather than just prioritizing one or the other, I'd be better off diversifying in case I come across someone with craptons of the anti-stat (wreck/accuracy)? Or would it be better to just stack one and hope for the best?


Given I just started doing the Mining Scramble, that's going to take a bit. But then it's also going to still take some time to get enough original stones to upgrade to the shield crash level, so that's not too much of a problem. 


...Yep. Definitely going to take more considering to figure out how to match up the halidoms. 


Because I'm at the point where I'm considering it, is it better to upgrade stars to the duplex form (Like the Rage+HP in one) and then add additional stars to that character, or leave it be? It seems like the trade off is that the duplex ones are more difficult (or impossible?) to upgrade to the next color? Just checking before I make a serious mistake.

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HakilErica

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-05-03 11:06

Yes, anyone you plan to keep for the long-haul should be fully developed.  However, stars, gems, and ends (but not odds :) can be transferred from old buddies to new, so they can be fully developed at any time.

On potions, you should be about the right point where raiding for suite components is generally on-level, so farming them up doesn't cost as much XP as it will to do later.  Inheriting doesn't cost that much, so it is probably cheaper to just use them, versus using all that inventory space to stockpile them instead (just make sure to keep them in even numbers, unless you plan to gold-inherit.)  The main difference is how soon you plan to replace them.  I wouldn't necessarily use stage 6+ potions on replacible buddies, but aything you can run suites on should be okay.  Cultivation is generally a scam anyway, so no point in that for anyone you plan to replace (unless you are drowning in Theopteras.)

The choice is more of a class thing.  Assassins primary is dodge, knights primary is block, and the rest can take both.  Thoeretically assassins can take both as well, to protect yourself in case the dodge fails, but any time you look to both they are taking up an extra slot that could be used for offense or pure defense.

None of the stars directly upgrade.  The only cost of dual-stat stars is that you must sacrifice the component stars to use them (in your example an Aries & Taurus for Cepheus.)  Beyond that, it's just a question of XP, and in that regard, since they take more XP to finish (245760 for Aries vs 368640 Cepheus,) they are useful stores of XP for when it comes time to upgrade (if you have used them across the board.)  They also give higher stats than the equivalent components (Aries-12 has 24k HP while Cepheus-12 has 26k HP.)  Looking ahead, orange (dual-stat) stars can also take a higher max level than red (not that the Orange-18 XP requirement of 2.95M [4.4M for the new super-orange-18] vs Red-15 XP requirement of 800k is pleasant to farm.)

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Oblivion

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-05-16 14:08

Awesome. Hathor's finally geared up in the latest tier gear and I'm slowly working on leveling her stars and polishing gems up to at least a decent purple of decent stats on all three slots. I've even managed to break the 1mil BC mark which, though it still puts me well behind the four people above me on the server and way, way  behind the people I'm running into in Scramble and Cross-server stuff, still makes me quite pleased. 


On the reputation front, I've now passed the 2.1million rep needed to start getting the buddies you listed, and just slowly working toward the level 120 mark. I do have some more questions, though. O the long term (non-deity) buddies, which would you suggest I prioritize getting? Are any of them more definitely "Put this in the sub slot" than others? 


Also, I'm looking at the costs for these guys, and I'm noticing that each has a "reputation cost." Do they actually take away reputation when you get them? For instance, if I get Accolade, will I drop from 2,100,000 (Jeez, would it kill them to add some commas to their numbers? I practically go cross-eyed every time I try to count the zeroes) rep, or however many I have at the time, to 2,000,000 (or, y'know, 100,000 less than I had)? Or is it just something it says but doesn't actually happen?


What I meant with the stars is that if you're going from gold rage to red rage, you can transfer that xp and be closer to having a max red rage star. If you have a star with two stats, unless you hold off until you have access to the next tier of two-stat star, feeding your two-stat into a red will only give you the stats for that star (I.E. Taurus->Lioncel and Aries->Camelopardalis keeps stats in both, though likely not to the same level/extent. Cepheus to either, or anything short of True Cepheus, does not.) The massive increase in needed xp does sound unpleasant, but then you are combining two stars into one. And if you did have max level on both, then you'd "only" need 800k-ish extra xp to finish up. 


At least on my main character, I've decided to combine into Cepheus (and will probably combine others) to give myself room for more stats as they pop up. One thing I'm still a little confused about is how the Resistance and Shield stars fit into all this. While Block and Dodge have direct counters, they (Resist and Shield) don't? Are they just extra defensive stats for a more well-rounded defense? How does their potency stack up?

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HakilErica

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Re: Questions about the mid-game buddy carousel

Post2018-05-19 3:59

I had prioritized my original list, so you should be good to go there.  However, in having looked over it again, you may want to move Shyvanna/Accolade up to sooner than later, so you can develop a tank.  I had just put Accolade at the end since he doesn't really fit your design aesthetic but face-checking hits with attackers & brawlers only gets you so far.

Yes, Sanctuary buddies have a rep cost that will drop your balance (hence why they require 2.1 or whatever, so after paying you can still qualify for Sanctuary.)  It really just serves to space them out, which you would want for TOL/TOS anyway, and as you've been noticing, rep flows more freely at these levels.

You may be missing something on the star mechanic.  Red stars (or orange dual-stat) care about yellow stats as much as yellow stars (single/dual) care about purple stats.  When moving between tiers, all that matters is how much XP it stores.  This is not to say there isn't some planning to do, since feeding a Cephus means your unit is now missing their +HP/+Rage, so you will most likely only feed it to the True Cephus replacement.  Red stars are worth 500k XP fresh off the exchange, so adding one to the orange will both unlock the stat component and bump it up to level 8.  Adding the second (fresh off exchange) will bump it up to... level 8 (no more free-rides like with yellows,) but at least both sides will be open.

Defense x Attack
Block x Wreck
Dodge x Accuracy
Resistance x Critical
Shield x Deathstrike
etc.. (that is why the stats are formatted they way they are under attributes, in offsetting pairs, and you can hover over them for a description)

How do they stack up?  A lot of them are interconnected, play off each other, or work in places & times you wouldn't expect, so the short answer is YMMV.  I would defer to anyone who has taken the time to check (and keep up on) the game's math in detail on potency of one side versus the other.


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